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Security on public wifi

Does Nextdns protect me when I connect to insecure public wifi? Or do I need a VPN?

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  • Protect against what?

    Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow Online threats, like malicious actors, hackers, snoopers etc. Anyone trying to steal sensitive info.

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Sohan Ray a VPN doesn’t protect against anything from that. If you use https connections, keep your system and hardware up2date then everything is fine. Using a more secured DNS service like NextDNS or Quad9 „only“ increase your protection. Same for encrypted vs non-encrypted DNS. 
       

      if you also don’t trust public wifi networks, just avoid it and use mobile network only. 

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow I can ensure a Https connection on browser, but what about the other apps ? I don't even know or can know whether they are using secure connections. Also , apart from DNS , HTTP, HTTPS is there any other type of network traffic?

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow Also, I believe a VPN encrypts my entire traffic and hides me from the outside online world(changing my IP address and location info). That should keep away malicious actors,snoopers and hackers. So, how exactly are you saying that VPN doesn't protect from such threats? Could you elaborate?

      Like 1
      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Sohan Ray Yes. For example direct IP connections exists.

      If you own an iPhone you can verify app behavior with internal app privacy report.

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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  • I'd say most of the time NextDNS should be enough, with the right options on in the security settings (should be on by default) it should block you from resolving internal domains and the fake websites that the VPN companies constantly use for advertising. So as long as you aren't connected to a internal website that could be used as the attack vector, it should be fine and with HTTPS you already get a layer of encryption.

    Most of the VPN advertising is honestly to scare the user into purchasing the solution to feel safer.

    If you have a place / connection that has a heavier firewall that's blocking websites heavily. A VPN can help, there are other parts like changing your IP that could be useful, but honestly, if you're thinking of pure security in a none invasive nation it's nothing that cortical and you shouldn't need it.

    But if you're in a nation where you don't feel safe with your data and it could be monitored it could help to use a VPN, but you'd also have to trust them with doing nothing bad, so you would need a Transparent company.

    Ive seen Surfshark lie right before their acquisition about the merger with Nord and there was another lie at the same time period so I wouldn't trust them in the slightest, wanted to put this in since these two are popular and I honestly would say avoid them at least.

    Overall, 90% of the time you won't need a VPN, there are uses but you don't need it as it's not that critical. Internet itself is safe enough and with NextDNS it should block their biggest claim about unsafe networks.

    Chrome let's you know if the encryption is disabled, so don't visit a none encrypted site, don't do anything critical to stay in the safe side and if you still want maximum security, use mobile data in terms of banks and other critical websites.

    Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey whenever I connect to a network, using the sign in page, are those pages HTTPS encrypted always? Say there's a malicious hotspot posing as a legitimate one...will NextDns protect me?

      Also, I was looking at possible cases of malicious websites launching hacking attacks themselves, to take control of devices.

      So why are you saying that the merger between Nordvpn and surfshark was a lie? They say that Surfsahrk would be partenering with Nordvpn to improve themselves but operate independently as usual. Surfshark uses RAM only servers to make sure that no logs are kept. Its also recommended on places like Forbes and even other trusted reviewing websites like Techradar. So why do you say its not Trustworthy? I belive they are transparent about there strict no logs policy too.

      How would NextDns Block unsafe networks? like will it block if I am trying to connect to an unsafe network?

      Chrome or a browser does let know if a website is insecure. But what about the rest of the network traffic and all the other apps on the device? I don't believe they let know if they are using secure connections.

      Like
      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray for the Surfshark deal, about 3 days before acquisition WeVPN asked them on Twitter if they had any involvement with Nord since NordVPN started following them on Tiwtter, they declined and 3 days later the merger was announced. There was also another lie about their email compromising checks in the same time period so in less than a week, there were two lies that they admitted to when it was proven / done.

      So them merging isn't a lie but they lied about the merger and how their compromise check works, pretty sure it was something known and free that they claimed was their own technology.

      For the login pages, any website you go through your browser, Chrome, Firefox etc shows when it's not encrypted and Chrome warns you with a page that you have to manually accept the risks and go to the website. So you'll know when the site isn't properly secured.

      In terms of Public WiFis and if the site is compromised aka internal, there are two layers of protection one verifying the websites legitimacy and another setting that blocks internal IPs as far as I know. So you should be protected but I'd still use Mobile data for Banking and generally cortical sites / apps.

      For the last two questions, apps wouldn't let you know if they are coded badly hut any proper banking app should make sure that they are secure but if they don't again NextDNS has two layers to protect you.

       

      Overall, you should be protected for the most part, at worst you can also use your Mobile data for the important apps/sites.

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey I see. But from my vantage point, I think a company cannot or at least safely choose not to confirm or say about any partnership with other companies until and unless its signed officially. Until then its their internal confidential affairs/matters.

      I didn't get the part you saying about their email compromising checks. What does that mean? Does it refer to their feature that checks if the users email or passwords have been compromised?

      For the login pages, any public wifi generally has like a local kinda sign in page which enables the user to connect to the network. I don't suppose NextDns can possibly confirm its legitimacy. Also, I don't know exactly if all such sign in web pages uses a internal IP or not. But if they do, NextDns blocking such IPs would actaully block all such pages not allowing users to connect to the network at all.

      Also, Nextdns may verify legitimacy to insecure connections, but such unencrypted connections might expose the user to attacks which may not even be from the website itself or at least not from its creator. I don't believe DNS encryption plays a part in it as there's no involvement of DNS once the connection to a domain is established.

      Using mobile data would be safe. Although I have noticed, wherever there are a few Public wifi hotspots, mobile data seem to not work or work with very slow connection speeds. I am guessing there's a lot of interference created by those wifi networks. Also, I have noticed such public wifi zones/areas usually have weak mobile connections too. Guess they setup the network in such zones especially for such reasons.

      Leaving all the above cases aside though, I believe a VPN can provide a privacy protection that DNS just can't.

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray Also, using mobile data would be safe only if the mobile network uses  proper security protocols in its networks.

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      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray A VPN doesn't provide additional security ontop of your existing security provided by the program developers and general security measures by the browsers.

      If the website was fake a VPN wouldn't help as it would be decrypted when it reaches the destination.

      A VPN only helps if the WiFi point isn't using a password and there is someone intercepting the connection but even then, any critical app and websites use HTTPS/TLS so it's encrypted already.

      The only time where it would help would be that you're using a none encrypted website on a WiFi that doesn't have a password. 

      NextDNS does block internal IPs by its DNS Rebinding Protection for the most part and it uses DNSSEC to verify the legitimacy ontop of that.

      Like 1
      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray Yeah the solution that they were using to check their users email/password and generally if they are compromised was told to be their own and later on showed that it was something that was already available for free and nothing special.

      For how they can't tell about the merger, they didn't have to lie and deny it. They could have given a vague answer or simply didn't answer at all, denying it shows ill intent in my opinion.

      Overall, there are only a few VPNs I would trust but even then, I don't use any as the benefits really are marginal, if you're planning on using it to bypass firewalls and restrictions based on your country it's useful, but if you're going to use it for security the benefits aren't much.

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey Ok. So, how would the VPN help in case of non encrypted HTTP website?

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      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
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      To answer both your questions.

      https://www.cloudflare.com/dns/dnssec/how-dnssec-works/

      NextDNS would still block a fake HTTP site since DNSSEC is about the website you are looking for matching the domain that's returned, doesn't matter what sort of connection it is.

      Secondly, if the website was using HTTP you would have encryption added by the VPN, but any known and critical website/app will use HTTPS. But if it wasn't used and you still connected to that website, and you were connected to a WiFi without a password with someone actively trying to snoop in, that would be the only case where a VPN would actually change the end result.

      But even then, it wouldn't help you from connecting to a fake website, so the likelihood of it being useful would be about 1% or less.

      The site wouldn't use HTTPS and wouldn't stop or warn you, most apps even have protection against apps inside your device that try to bypass HTTPS let alone allowing a none secure connection to be made. So a poorly coded app, or not caring about the warnings would be the only way to be in danger.

      Like
      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray I'd like to add that this is exactly why I don't like most VPN providers, they use scare tactics to make the user feel as they are not secured properly and that if they aren't paying the company they will be in danger. You would be paying just inacse of a 0.01% chance of everything going badly where the devs mess up, the connection isn't encrypted, the WiFi isn't protected and you can't use your mobile data.

      Even then, you always have a choice of simy not going onto the cortical website if all of these situations are met.

      I'd like to say again, it's useful to bypass restrictions and firewalls but in terms of pure security, unless your govemrent is using DPI and other techniques to intercept your connection, it won't help.

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey If I am connected to the HTTP website, how does a VPN change the end result exactly? since its HTTP, I believe a snooper can still see my activity or my personal details if I enter them on the website right?

      Like
      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray if the website is a fake / an internal website spoofing as your bank for example, it wouldn't help in any way.

      If your actual bank or critical all was using HTTP to connect to its own servers on a none protected WiFi (without a password) with someone snooping the connection it would help. But again, the website / app devs would have to be crazy to let that happen in the first place.

      So if the snooper made their own fake/forged wsbsite they would see your details yeah. Even if you had a VPN.

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      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray So to put all of what I said in a single sentence, it wouldn't help much if at all, but if you still want it for other reasons where it's valid, I'd say get a good VPN service that you can actually rely with your private data.

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey Ok. Also, I am not sure about this. Apart from DNS traffic, there is only HTTP and HTTPS traffic right? and no other types?

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      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray That I can't comment on, pretty sure there is at least a few more types of connections but I don't know enough to comment concretely.

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey Seems this info is not common online. I tried to search about all types of online traffic that exists to determine what other types than HTTP are unencrypted,but no luck yet. 

      Like
    • Sohan Ray smtp, ftp, telnet, icmp, snmp, just a few off the top of my head, there are likely several others 

      Like 1
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Calvin Hobbes Thanks. Anytime if you are able to procure a full list, do share.

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    • Sohan Ray  I doubt comprehensive list is available.   I’m going by what I use or have used in the past.   POP3 and IMAP are likely still used by many, but I stopped using those about 15 years ago.   (they’re still used by many email clients, but most people nowadays probably use web based mail).    There’s probably dozens or perhaps 100s of proprietary protocols as well. 

      You could also look at well known tcp and udp port numbers to see what’s expected on well known ports, but any protocol CAN use ANY port with a bit of tinkering.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbers

      If you want to know more about what protocols are being used on YOUR network check out https://www.wireshark.org/

      Like 1
  • Can an insecure public wifi trick me into visiting a forged cloned website when using NextDns by say providing connection to the wrong IP address to the DNS when it requests for the connection in plain text?

    Like
      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Sohan Ray not if you use NextDNS and take care about using https only sites.

      As Hey already wrote, NextDNS use DNSSEC.

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow ok. But what if the site is HTTP? In that case I can be redirected to a cloned website?

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Sohan Ray DNS doesn’t care about used HTTP protocol 

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      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
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      Sohan Ray Yes, if they have access to lower levels of the router in your lan, or a machine inside a lan that is responding for multiple ips on the same interface, he could advertise  with arp that the ip you want to send traffic to, is actually inside your lan and the attacker could send the traffic you send him to the internet trough another ip/port/interface/lan or trough the same port and ip, but in another session. It is possiblle and not so difficult, you can do that yourself inside your lan, with your own devices like I did. This is called MITM, or Man In The Middle, a technique that can be used for good or bad.

      Like
  • If you’re looking for something that will protect you against all online threats, NextDNS isn’t that.   Neither is a VPN.   It sounds like you’re looking for a magic solution that provides 100% security.   It doesn’t exist, though you could disconnect entirely from the internet.  

    Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Calvin Hobbes 😂Nothing like that. I am just trying to decide between a good VPN and NextDns. 

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      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray if that's the case, I'd say NextDNS over any VPN. NextDNS can work completely in the background that's the reason why I love it. It's unintrusive, you don't have to think about it.

      That's one of the things I really believe in security. I don't think any security solution should need monitoring or user interaction. It should always be on but never hinder you from doing your work while doing its job, you shouldn't feel it's presence.

      With a VPN you could keep it on all the time, but you'd get constant captchas and worse speed for a 0.01% of a chance of something like I stated happening.

      You'd also miss the security feeds, AI, and other layers with the customization and convince.

      In my opinion, VPNs are a great bit of technology that has its uses, I just used it to diagnose a problem myself. But, it's uses aren't in security but are in convince of bypassing restrictions.

      To clarify incase someone gets it the wrong way they could help with security if the ISP is doing DPI analysis or the country is doing heavy monitoring on its users.

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Hey Ohk! Thanks...🙂

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      • Hey
      • Hey
      • 3 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray No problem, I didn't know you were planning to only use one of them, I'd take protection that happens without interaction that's going to protect me from most of the threats compared to something that I would have to think about all the time and turn it off and on constantly depending on what I'm doing.

      Like 1
    • Sohan Ray  NextDNS vs VPN.  They are two different tools for two different purposes.    I think you’ll want to first understand what each provides and what you’re trying to protect.  You previously said your wanting to avoid  Online threats, like malicious actors, hackers, snoopers etc. Anyone trying to steal sensitive info.

      You’re not going prevent all that with one vs the other.   I’m not sure using both would do all you’re asking for.   Nothing will do everything and you need to understand the tools and the threats you’re realistically going to face.   If your endpoint has been compromised, you’re hosed even if you’re using both.

      it seems like you’re looking for a simple solution to a complex problems.   

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Calvin Hobbes in the end I was wanting to determine which of the 2 (NextDns and VPN) would be the better option for online security. 

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Sohan Ray as VPNs doesn’t increase your security, the answer is easy ;)

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    • DynamicNotSlow unless you’re looking for privacy from snooping (by encrypting all traffic) and hiding your real  IP address from sites you visit

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Calvin Hobbes no. You just moving your trust from ISP to the VPN provider and as you can read on internet, most - if not all VPN provider are bad

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  • Without knowing what Operating System you are using out and about I am hard pressed to know the answer.

    I can give you an idea. You can get VyprVPN for Android and Microsoft (this option is omitted for iOS.)

    In the settings for Android and Windows and MacOS in VyprVPN you can enter your NextDNS address number and then turn on a VPN for a little anonymity. VPN’s that use their own DNS will not work, not that they are all bad DNS resolvers in “some” VPN services. It’s about 11 bucks a month. Some VPN’s, especially the free ones use free DNS resolvers like cloudflare and other ones like that. 
     

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  • IMO the simple answer:

     

    If you need to pretend you’re in a different country / hide your real IP, or need to connect to public Wi-Fis with no password, use a VPN (as long as you trust them with your logs)

    If you don’t need any of the above two requirements, you are perfectly fine with NextDNS (as long as you trust them with your logs)

     

    With VPNs after my own extensive research I would only trust Mullvad, ProtonVPN, IVPN. Do a search for Techlore to find out more.

    Mind you, combining both scenarios above is sometimes possible, but super messy.

    Like
  • Luke Skywalker said:
    Do a search for Techlore to find out more

     Please not.  He is an toxic troll and shouldn’t get that much attention. 

    Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow well whatever the scenario....DNS firewall is enough....VPN is just for some specific privacy...that's all..

      DNS firewall won't let any 3rd party , ISP on the network direct you to any unintended IP addresses. so its enough. and VPN doesn't magically encrypt a non encrypted connection. it just encrypts from the client to the VPN server . Rest flows as normal traffic. So if anyone enters any sensitive info on this un encrypted connection , with or without a VPN , no one is safe. And if you don't , you're safe , with or without a VPN.

      Like 1
    • DynamicNotSlow I find his videos very informative for entry level to average users.

      If you have any resources that are better pls do share.

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Luke Skywalker that’s the problem. His information are misinformation. 
       

      which topic did you read about?

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  • Hi Sohan, I use warp+ from a company called cloudflare on my mobiles, I will prolly use it on my Mikrotik+RouterOS_7 router because it has support for wireguard protocol. It uses an encryption tunnel called wireguard and on concept it is really secure as it uses private/public key encryption of your data, not destination ips and other infos used to deliver tcp segments and udp datagrams. It is fairly secure on concept and so far on practice.

    Like
      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Just as a complement, VPNs do increase security and privacy, BUT you need a good firewall to make it work completely/fully and without errors that can make firewalls work AGAINST your security and privacy. Most smartphones DON'T have any or just too basic, firewalls .

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Carlos Warp by cloudflare is pretty common. Since cloudflare is coomon. So I have already tried it in past, and the speeds are very bad for me. From a 150Mbps speed it goes down to 20 Mbps with warp. So, it isn't usable for me. Also, with warp you have to use cloudflare dns , which doesn't have any blocking capabilities or you can use the Gateway DNS but that too doesn't quite fair well in blocking,and also it doesn't block ads and trackers which is something I cannot live without,since I am used to it since 2015 I think :/

      Like
      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Carlos Can you explain why VPNs do increase security and privacy over an encrypted DNS firewall? Also, do read my previous comments in this post before that...

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      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray Actually you can use nextdns with warp, but use warp+ not the free version.  Warp (free version) is slow.

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      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Sohan Ray Let me get this right, no traffic other then DNS traffic goes trough a Encrypted DNS firewall, but encrypted DNS traffic CAN go trough an encrypted VPN. That is the case with warp+ .

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Carlos I have tried the warp+ and that too is slow for me. As slow as I said earlier.

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • 1
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      Carlos A VPN just encrypts from point A-the client to point B- the VPN server . Rest(from the VPN server to whatever destination you're connecting to, for example facebook.com) flows as normal traffic. So if anyone enters any sensitive info on this un encrypted connection(say a HTTP site) , with or without a VPN , no one is safe. And if you don't enter any sensitive info in this site, you're safe , with or without a VPN.

      So basically a VPN doesn't encrypt the un encrypted HTTP connection magically because it isn't possible at all. All it does is , it anonymizes you by creating an encrypted tunnel from point A to point B as mentioned earlier and thus hiding your IP address(from anyone on the network or your ISP) which could be used to personally identify you in many cases and track your online activities.

      Like 1
      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow Well, each thing you do to change something, if changed, it does change something. It may not solve everything, may not be final, but it certainly changes things. Firewalls WORK if you do it right, on Linux there are some options you can turn-off and on that really make a difference.

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Carlos no they can easily be bypassed. You should read my link. 

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      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow I have read your link. and they cannot be EASILY bypassed, there has to be an effort to do so AND it may not provide expected result AND I am not passing wrong information. The information I give is correct.

      Like
  • To answer this question, go trough some firefox (or any other browser) hardening tutorial, there are some options in browsers that should be turned off, and on. Like disabling FAKE TLS handshakes, use only latest TLS versions, disable security.tls.version.enable-deprecated ( it gets turned on every time you hit a TLS 1.1/1.2 site), and other options that in a snap disable some or all your security. So a good firewall and a good vpn, will not make those vulnerabilities available to your ISP, or people in the same LAN as you on a ISP or private lan. Just hit about:config (on firefox and type 'tls', for example) and see the amount of options that get changed "behind your back".

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      • DynamicNotSlow
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      • DynamicNotSlow
      • 3 mths ago
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      Carlos stop posting misinformation and nonsense. Users will end in broken setups with your „tips“. 

      firefox isn’t recommend anyway 

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      • Carlos
      • Carlos
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      DynamicNotSlow What I am saying here is correct, all those things will only work if you have a strong firewall, a well configured system, that removes legacy options that turn your system and/or your tcp stack vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, and most linux boxes come with those options turned on (bad options on, good options off), and it is your job  to turn it on/off and be sure about your system, as much as you can. Also a last word on VPN providers from other countries, is that, they WILL hack your computer/voip box/smartphone as I got all of those attacks on a pcap.  They are not bound to the laws of your country. BE extremely careful with wich VPN you choose, choose VPNs in your country or a country that has "good" local/international internet laws.

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      • Sohan Ray
      • Sohan_Ray
      • 3 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Carlos That is if someone chooses to use a VPN at all. They only add some privacy benefits and bypassing geo blocks feature, and that's all.

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